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Welcome to Salsa
and the City! This is a new monthly column by Erin
about Salsa in the Circle City. Salsa has become a lifestyle for some of us: music,
dance, parties, fashion, travel, friends, relationships, and, did I say dance?
For those who are addicted to Salsa, this is a place where you can read about
what's going on in the city, and share your ideas, comments, and gossip. Erin
has been a regular of Indy's Salsa scene since 1998.
Ladies...Not Dancing?
by Erin
Lamb
posted August 15, 2007
Many a time I have heard of women complaining because they don't get asked to dance at the clubs. While I do sympathize (because I once was that girl), I do know that many times there is a reason for it. You say; What, Erin? You're actually going to take the men's side on this one?! Well, yes, kind of . . .
You see, the salsa scene is very social. Many people who come into the club on an average night have a group of friends with whom they are used to socializing. They dance with their friends because they know them, and they're comfortable with them. There is no major risk of rejection from a friend when asking for a dance. Especially for men, who often carry the responsibility of asking for a dance, it is easier to ask someone you know than someone you don't know.
In addition, many women who do not get asked to dance, they have all the wrong body language. If a man, who doesn't know you, sees you sitting in a corner, staring blankly or worse staring angrily, is he really going to risk asking you to dance? Also, crossing your arms, or focusing on a conversation with your girlfriends are not good ways to attract possible dance partners. If you don't act interested in them, they won't act interested in you.
The best way to get a man's attention is to stand don't sit. And not on the back wall, you must stand on the edge of the dance floor. Secondly, you must smile. It is the easiest way to communicate, Yes! I'm ready to dance! And, to seal the deal, start swaying to the music a little on your own. Without saying anything at all, you'll get his attention. Best of all, if one guy asks you to dance, it will pathe a way for all other men, who were reluctant to ask you earlier, to finally start asking. You won't stop dancing until the end of the night.
Also, if you haven't been asked to dance all night, it is not time to start raising your standards. Don't turn a man down simply because he is not your idea of the perfect salsero. Besides, what if the guy asking you to dance has really amazing salsero friends? What then? If you turn him down, you've just turned down half the room.
And if all of the above doesn't work, expand your horizons. Make more friends within the salsa scene. One of the best ways to do that is by taking a class. In class it is easy to get to know people because you will dance with everyone. Plus, they are already at your level of dance. You can make plans with your classmates to meet out at the clubs together.
In closing, ladies you are going to have to be more aggressive. Because there are more women and less men, you cannot afford to cry in the corner. You must strategize, and put your game face on a smile that is . . . then maybe you will see more results on the dance floor.
Past Columns
Reader's comments
I agree 100% with you Erin. I was once in that position shouting the the same thing. I took those same steps. Now I get asked to dance a lot. This also works when you go out of town to dance salsa as well. Unfortunately, now men say that they are intimidated to dance with me. Just ask me to dance and find out what happens. Otherwise, your lose!
- ~*Chimere*~
Loved your article. It will give alot of insight to the wall flowers wanting to dance. Maybe, just maybe the flowers will be more assertive and ask the guys to dance. It's all about having fun dancing. Thanks Toodooles.
- ReNora
Wow! Erin That was a really good one. To add to it (rather support a few points). BODY LANGUAGE: Men (most) like women come to the clubs to have a good time and feel HAPPY. Then comes the situation of raising your happiness by asking someone you know would not say "NO" to you when a great song comes along or risk asking someone you don't know. And if I was risking my happiness at the start of a great song, who would I ask : a)I would look for a friendly face, b)someone who I see is nearer to the dance floor rather than risking walking all the way to the back to someone who has her arms crossed and is having angry expression on her face from god knows what ever she is going thru. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT: Then there are women I write off after I feel that they give me the "I am too good to be dancing with you", sometimes with their words sometimes with their body language. This is a particular behavior I used to get when I was starting off dancing and I am sure most men have faced that. Now when some ladies come around telling about how bad a dance they had with some beginner, I tell them this, if you think u are too good for him now, why then do you think the same guy would want to dance with you latter when he has become a good dancer and now that he thinks he is better! Would he not have the right to think that he is too good for you now?..... I for one am very grateful to all the women who knew I was a very bad dancer, but still danced with me, encouraged me with kind words. In the end, its like any relationship, "AS YOU SOW, SO YOU REAP". Cheers to spreading the love of dancing.
- Vino
Also be careful how you say "NO", cause there may be 10 other guys on the fence watching and waiting to see how you are.
- Vino
I completely agree with the statement that once one guy asks you to dance, they all ask. I love those types of nights. Also, this past week there was someone I wanted to dance with but he was paying me no mind, so I asked him! We ended up dancing most of the night.
- Salsera
Body language, the gesture of the eyes, especially a direct gaze and what you wear ladies. Tell me Erin, what goes through your mind when you select from the wardrobe on a Saturday Night? How important is the fashion statement on the dance Floor?
- muchomachomagnifico
Please ladies, listen to this woman when she say's sway a little to the music on the edge of the dance floor. I am new to salsa dancing yet that's how I know a lady is ready to dance. Have fun!! Enjoy the music and other's will be ready to enjoy with you.
- Jai
and why not ask the guys...that usually works too ;-)
- love to dance
Amen Erin. Well said...
- Larry
Erin, Great article, as usual. One more point. This is 2007. If a woman wants to dance, all she has to do is ask. If she gets rejected, she'll understand what it's like for the men, but more than likely, she'll get a "yes". Don't sit around and wait, strategize, and play games. Confident women get up and ask the men to dance.
- Anonymous
Good article, Erin. I personally love it when a girl asks me to dance. It doesn't matter who, she becomes my queen for the night. And girls, "trust me", guys do want to dance with you. Maybe they are just a little bit shy and scared because of the impression you give to the outside world. If you want to dance with somebody, make eye contact, smile, and he'll be there in a second. If not, he's not worth it anyway.
- Talha
Good article! I do want to point out that this is mainly an issue in Indy and not other major cities. I've traveled a lot to other cities to salsa dance and never had problems with men asking me to dance other than in Indy. It is a challenge for women here in Indy when it comes to social salsa dancing. I do however understand all of the above issues that men observe before asking a lady to dance and I know men are concerned about the "element of surprise" when they ask a lady to dance, but as long as you make it fun. You will have a good time. So what's up with Indy salseros? Why do they make the women do all the asking.
- Salsera
I agree with "Salsera". I've never had trouble getting asked to dance in other cities. But, it is a problem here, not just for me, but for a lot of women. What IS up with the Indy salseros?
- Anonymous
Awwww sorry but I think its a Big BS when some people just complain about having problems with the crowd in Indy not asking them to dance. Well I have met people from many cities and danced in many cities, and I found there is alway a group of women there that complain the same about men in their city. Its so easy to blame others when you are not been asked to dance in your own town. Maybe (MAYBE, i am not sure thou, but something for you to think about instead of blaming the good men in INDY). Atleast the ones that I know some guys don't like to ask to dance with are usually the ones who think that they are DIVAS or would have pissed off the guys at some point of time. OR the men having seen you do something they did not like OR, they are men who are not able to feel the connection with you. And maybe when you are in a different city, you are fresh meat and the men are trying to figure out how you dance, or may be when you are in a different city, you are all excited and happy and that men feel confident to approach you thinking that you are fun, as you are oozing out the fun energy and look all happy and positive (as opposed to the women who look bored or angry, body language which even men sometimes show, when they keep seeing the same'ol, same'ol). There are numerous times when some guy friend would come over to me and tell me that I am putting out a bad body language and expression on my face. well I could go on and could have even worded it better, but I have to go now for my afternoon dance by the BEACH.
- Vino
Whatever! The men hear are too shy to ask women to dance. Be a man and ask the lady to dance! Get over your egos!! Maybe if the men here looked better or lead better, maybe women wouldn't turn them down. We are no different than a man. We look for the same things as well. ;-)
- salsa slut
Tip for ladies, eye contact. Need I say more.
- broken_salsero
Erin: Great article. Vino: Touche... excellently put... Salsa Slut: It's difficult to approach someone with a scowl on their face... maybe the men wouldn't be so shy if you appeared in a better mood... as for the men being poor dancers, perhaps the city would have better leads if women like you would help them a bit, rather than drive them away by telling them what awful leads they are... I'm not taking a shot at all women by saying they all do this, because God knows I owe my abilities to the many women who helped me and stuck around through the rough times... As Vino put so appropriately before: "Then there are women I write off after I feel that they give me the "I am too good to be dancing with you", sometimes with their words sometimes with their body language. This is a particular behavior I used to get when I was starting off dancing and I am sure most men have faced that. Now when some ladies come around telling about how bad a dance they had with some beginner, I tell them this, if you think u are too good for him now, why then do you think the same guy would want to dance with you latter when he has become a good dancer and now that he thinks he is better! Would he not have the right to think that he is too good for you now?"
- The Indianapolis Salsero
Blah Blah Blah! I'm always on the dance floor, so I must be doing something right. But it's a double standard. I do know some women who feel that they should only dance with the "advanced" salseros. And I think that's shady, but that's why they are sitting down most of the the night. But the same goes to men. Some men think they are one of Indy's best salsa dancers and only dance with the advanced salseras. So on top of the snobby/picky salseros, the rest are not man enough to ask a lady or a new face to dance.
- salsa slut
To Salsa Slut, some advanced dancers are often reluctant to ask others who are not so advanced to dance simply because they don't want to feel bad wether it's purposely or accidently. I've seen a couple of situations where an advanced dancer will try a simple turn and the female can't follow and the furstration can accumulate. How ever, not everyone is the same either. I've seen Ryan and Chad dance with not so advanced dancers and give tips on the dance floor. To end this long drawn out conclusion from my point of view...I think MEN should ask any woman to dance and any woman that's asked to dance should take a chance/risk at having fun...cuz like others have said...YOU NEVER KNOW! By the way...I'm not an advanced salsa dancer, hell I've never taken lessons before. But, I dance from the heart and most women can follow that!!!
- Gino
Vino, Why do you always seem so angry? I do agree with you about the fresh meat, however. I think men are always looking for fresh meat, on the dance floor, and on any floor. Another comment. When I was a beginner dancer, I did not like to dance with other beginners. I wanted someone better to help me. Now that I am more advanced (three years worth), I actually don't mind dancing with beginners, because I know how to make up the difference. I can still have a good time. But, they seem intimidated by me, as if they think that I won't want to dance with them. Last time I was out, I asked a not-so-advanced guy to dance, and he thanked me profusely. But he seemed nervous and apologetic the whole time. Later, when I was giving him plenty of eye contact, he didn't return the favor. I think guys can be intimidated no matter how hard women try to accomodate them. I have found that the better I get, then less I get asked to dance. Honestly, I think men prefer women who are not as good as they are.
- Anonymous
Well to one of the Anonymous who asked me why do I always seem angry. I am not sure if you are mis-reading my Passion to help about certain issues that I think could be easily improved with discussion for Anger. Another point is now that you are an advanced dancer, I guess that you may have tried leading. And when a guy (who is learning) is trying to lead he has so much on his mind that it takes some time for people who have just about got into dancing to let go of the process of thinking about the next move and just enjoy the dancing the dance to the great salsa songs. It takes time. Lots of practice with Muscle memory, coordination, next move, connection,,,,,,,
The past few months, I have been concentrating mostly on just doing the basics steps and cross body move. And who best seems to enjoy the dance, the Beginners. Sometimes when I ask a beginner to dance, I can feel the tension in her hands. I ask a few of them to close their eyes, trust me and follow my lead. Huge difference in the tension of their hands and ease of leading for me. Its not just men who are nervous, most people I know who are getting into something that they don't know, is always nervous, its a natural thing. The thing that helps most there is been an understanding partner. Then I remember dancing with a few women who I had seen evolve from beginner to advanced. And I had a few women tell me that they are feeling bored that I just spin them once and that they want to be spun multiple times.
Maybe if you keep dancing with the same not-so-advanced dancer and just develop the connection, I am sure no matter which part of the dance floor you are he will be there to ask u to dance. It takes time. Not to say that it may be kind of pressure on that guy if he has seen you dance and thinks very highly of u. IT very well could be that some men prefer women who are not so good and so could there be hundreds other reasons. But unless you give it a fair opportunity and time (if you think its worth it) you never really know. After all these discussion, in the end there are so many other parameters out there that are still un-known. Its like a relationship, you never really know what the other person is going thru or thinking. The least we could do is try to discuss and get to know what others have to say/share and hopefully incorporate others experience, views or opinions or suggestions we are comfortable with. But if one decides to play the BLAME GAME of MEN--WOMEN, it will go on in circles. And I am sure one of the reasons Erin came up with the article is with the intention of helping the few people who may be confused with things and need to know what others think. Cheers to Democracy and sharing of views. And regarding the comment from salsa slut. I am not sure about others, but I am not going to the salsa dance parties to prove my manhood. I am going there to have fun dancing may be meet up with some wonderful people and Enjoy!
- Vino
Again all this said and done, I would not classify myself as perfect. I have caught myself been shallow and doing things I should not be doing. The best I do is try like any human to improve myself every time I can and TRY to learn from what life teaches and HOPE FOR THE BEST! ;-) Cheers to dancing and those that love dancing.
- Vino
Vino, You are right about the connection being the most important thing. I have danced with friends who are new to salsa and have had no problems because they are friends first. The connection was there. If we all (men and women) try to get to know each other a bit more, we will all be more relaxed and enjoy dancing more. But, that requires an end to game playing and the meat market. It's not enough to try to "get guys" to ask us to dance (as this article suggests), it's about enjoying any dance with anyone (even alone or woman to woman, or man to man, or in a group) and finding a way to express and connect through salsa. I think it's great when I see someone dancing alone and totally enjoying the music, or when two men or two women are doing moves together. It doesn't have to be a woman-man thing. We can certainly break out of that mold, too. Thanks for your comments.
- Anonymous
Don't hate, congratulate. Then maybe you can participate. (Sorry, I just had to get my Jesse Jackson on.) Here are some things I feel will make it easier for everybody. 1) Just let it go. If someone says no, then brush it off and move on to the next person. There have been many situations where I was never asked to danced or have been rejected when I asked. It was very hurtful, and it showed on my face and in my body language. Many guys probably saw that, and misinterpreted it thinking that I'm some evil woman. Which in turn, ruined the rest of my evening. It's still a little embarassing to be rejected, but you just gotta let it go. That's one reason I learned how to lead. Guy or girl, I'll find somebody to dance with. 2) Don't be scared. Feeling intimidated is a personal issue that you need to fix within yourself. Now I will admit to being a diva, but in a good way. I'm just confident and comfortable with expressing myself. That doesn't mean that I won't dance with you. Just remember, it's only a dance. There are much bigger things to worry about. 3)Be happy somebody wants to dance with you. I'm sorry to hear that there are women telling guys that they are bored. My opinion on that is: Maybe she's bored because she's boring. Girl, create your own fun. The guy has a lot to think about. Especially if he's truly trying to be a good lead who is concerned about protecting and properly guiding the follow. As long as he's not hurting you or being disrespectful, there shouldn't be a problem. For me, dancing is about the person, not the patterns. 4)Go with the flow. We just have to accept that not everyone has been blessed with the gift. Ladies, I've found it much easier to just go with whatever he's dancing. Shoot, forget on 1 and on 2. You know you're the bomb when you can follow on 7 1/8 or 3 3/4 and still look good ;-). Like I said, as long as he isn't hurting you, roll with it. That also goes for the guys who become snooty when they think they're advanced. If you can look good leading a lady who wouldn't know rhythm if it were a pair manolos wrapped in a gucci handbag, then you've got skills. 5)Come with good intentions. When people come to the club with alterior motives, i.e. the meat market scenario, it creates an uncomfortable feeling for everyone. This will probably never change, because humans are humans. But introducing a negative energy or predatorial intent creates tension. Noone has a good time in an atmoshpere where people are being judgemental, fake, or trying to figure out how to get over on someone. I feel all of these things will help to create a more relaxed atmoshpere, thereby making it easier for anyone (male or female) to ask for a dance.
- Shayne
Man to man?
- Whoa!!
Shayne Great one!
- Vino
Thanks Vino. Save me a bachata.
- Shayne
Woooo Bachata..... Anytime Shayne! But that I loved best is watching you dance, just letting go and seeing you have loads of fun with a HUGE smile on your face.
- Vino
Way to go Shayne!
- El Mayimbe
Guys and Girls, the evening is what you make it. Whether you are in Indy or California, and if you are not being asked for dances, walk up and ask the guy. If he turns you down, it hurts a little, but, keep asking, once other guys see you on the dance floor others will ask you to dance. That is the way salsa dancing is. Let go and have some fun, after all you spent time getting ready.
- Donna
This was an interesting article. But what about the reverse? I'm still relatively new to salsa. My favorite and stronger dance is the bachata, but as a guy, I've been turned down for salsa dances more often than not. I'm learning and trying to get better at salsa, I often practice on my own time alone (paying for lessons is currently not in the budget). So what is a guy to do? Most of the better salseras (?) won't dance with me. My first thought is perhaps they have seen me dance and are not impressed. I don't do a lot of the fancier turns and stunts because I'm simply not on that level. I try to keep it simple and in my comfort zone. I appreciate any feedback.
- Otis
Erin I really enjoyed your article. I also agree with you. I am not an excellent dancer by no means. However, I agree with Renora, when I notice guys are not asking me to dance and are just standing I am assertive and ask a guy would they like to dance. You will be surprised at how many guys will accept your offer. Some may say no, but that is allright with me because I just ask the next one that will say yes.
- Sheila M
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