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Welcome to Salsa
and the City! This is a monthly column
by Erin about
Salsa in the Circle City. Salsa has become a lifestyle for some of us:
music, dance, parties, fashion, travel, friends, relationships, and,
did I say dance? For those who are addicted to Salsa, this is a place
where you can read about what's going on in the city, and share your
ideas, comments, and gossip. Erin has been a regular of Indy's Salsa
scene since 1999.
Belly Up to the Bar, Dancers
by Erin
Lamb
posted February 7, 2006
Anyone who has tried knows it is very difficult to promote and have
a successful Latin night in Indianapolis. Why is that you ask yourself?
Well, it is simple. Alcohol sales on average are low on nights that
a bar hosts a Latin night instead of any other promotions like hip-hop
or popular music. At most bars that play hip-hop or popular music, the
people do not dance a lot, or if they do dance, they do it with a drink
in their hand. This is what the bars and clubs like - what they need
- to survive if they want to stay in business.
The problem with Latin parties is the fact that we like to dance, and
we cannot do it with a drink in our hands. Yes, there are those of us
who drink in between songs, but there are many who prefer to just buy
a bottle of water to avoid dehydration and getting dizzy on the dance
floor. Now, I am not saying that every one should and must drink! No,
half the reason why I prefer Latin clubs over any others is because
after one o'clock, at least half of you can still walk a straight line
and carry on a logical conversation!
When speaking with bartenders I have heard two responses - one good
and one bad:
1. They prefer the Latin crowd because the people are friendlier and
easier to please.
2. They are upset because there are some dancers who come in, buy water
all night, and don't tip. Or, on some occasions, they've even spotted
a few dancers who bring in their own water bottles stashed in a purse
or coat so that they don't have to buy a drink at all.
I have been out dancing and bought some water myself, but I always tip.
I understand that I am paying for the service, and serving a bottle
of water takes the same effort as serving a beer. And as far as bringing
your own water bottle in, well, that's pretty damn cheap. You see, we
cannot maintain our nice clubs with nice dance floors for Latin dance
parties if the club owner does not make a profit at the bar. The owner
also has bills to pay.
On the other hand, there was an instance when I was in a bar in Miami
where I was treated terribly by a bartender at a Latin club. I had been
dancing all night (and drinking) but I was in desperate need for some
water. When I told the bartender that I wanted a bottle of water, he
smiled and said, " I'll be right back." Well, he never came
back. I watched as he went around and served everyone else and ignored
me the rest of the night. You see, he assumed because I was a dancer,
and needed a bottle of water, that I was not going to tip him or treat
him as well as someone who ordered something a little bit more expensive.
Too bad for him, I'm a great tipper.
So now, you tell me what you think. How do we solve this dilemma and
keep both the club owners and the Latin dance crowd happy?
Past Columns
Reader's comments
Very good article, I was thinking about
writing something similar for my salsa blog. We all love to dance and
must understand that we must pay to play. If dancers want a high quality
and safe environment to dance in then they have to support the clubs,
bands and studios (we always need more dancers). I know that money can
be tight for some, but remember that Salsa promoters and club owners are
taking a big risk in attempting to run a Latin night. They could easily
bring in a Hip-Hop DJ and purchase a few radio ads to make a quick buck.
The salsa community is getting stronger, but let’s not take it for
granted, it could all be gone tomorrow. Here is a message thread on someone
thoughts about keeping salsa alive. http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=11269&highlight=salsa+alive
Keep up the good work Erin and Yang; you guys have always hosted great
Latin parties.
- Marques
That's a good point. Being self-employed,
I realize that the money people think I make isn't always the reality
after all the expenses and time that goes into it. For us to continue
growing at the rate we have as a salsa community, we must support the
places and people who make it possible.
- Chad
I do understand the need for the latin club to
make money to stay open and wish everyone would buy a drink or two to
help. Maybe they should have a drink or two drink minimum and have you
pay at the door which is included with your enter fee and get a ticket
to give to the bartender some time befor the night is over also, maybe
having more drink specials like you call it will help.
- CJ
I can't speak for everyone else, but whenever
I (and the six or seven friends usually with me) go to a Latin night,
there is always a hefty bar tab, including tips, to pay. Not sure if that
is good or bad for me, but I guess I'm doing my part!!! And we still manage
to dance the whole night, too.
- anonymous
Erin, I think the first step is doing exactly what
you've done with this article: Get the word out. most dancers don't think
about whether a club owner is making a profit on latin night, and they
don't realize that no profit means nowhere for us to dance. Also, you'll
discover that if you tip a dollar on the one bottle of water you buy in
a night, the bartender won't ignore you...
- Drea
If you're a drinker, buy at least one or two drinks
throughout the evening if you're at the establishment for several hours.
The bars don't make much of a profit on bottled water. If you're not a
drinker, on the same token, buy at least a few bottled waters or other
nonalcoholic drinks. If we want great salsa venues, we have to support
them with drink sales, in addition to cover charges if there are any.
- Mer
This is funny, I was actually thinking about this
last Saturday night. That night, I had my first alcohol-free night (going
out at clubs that is, I don't drink every single night of my life). For
personal reasons, I really didn't want to drink alcohol that night. I
ordered a Coke and the bartender looked at me funny. She seemed happier
after noticing I did tip and actually thanked me. I don't think she ever
thanked me when I tipped for booze...but anyway, after realizing fountain
soda was only $1, I switched to bottled water next round, but that was
only $2 still and my mind started wondering how the club is going to hate
me tonight. I didn't know what else to order; I'm really not familiar
with "virgin" drinks (lets call it "non-alcoholic",
you might have a hard time getting grown men to use that term to order
a drink). The bartender are usually okay with me once they realize I maintain
a minimum tip of a $1 no matter what drink they get me (like Erin said,
it's the same amount of work bringing over a bottle of beer as it is water).
As for the club, if they can do a little better marketing to inform people
on low or non-alcoholic drinks that are available, I might try one next
time I'm in a non-alcoholic mood. If the clubs do it right, the margin
& profit on non-alcoholic drinks probably aren’t too bad (and
might even be better).
- BL
Hmmmm good article, Well if the Clubs don't host
it, I am sure there are places where serious salsa addicts can host the
parties. Salsa dancing need not always be at a club, in Vancouver we have
it happening in Community Centers of the Polish, Russian, Jazz and others.....
The Clubs even now are not doing us any big charity, they are definitly
making money out of the hosting, only that they are not getting as much
as they expect to get. awww! they are just greedy! All we Salsa junkies
need is a good dance floor and a good sound system. for that matter of
fact the salsa parties at Eagle Creek is a good example. Then there is
always this group of non-dancing drinkers (i have nothing against them,
was like that for sometime before i got the courage to hit the dance floor)
who just come there to Enjoy watching other people dance, for them its
booz and live dance entertainment for the evening by many dancers, all
rolled into one for a $10 door fee. And surely the club owners are aware
of the Booze-crowd pulling attraction that SALSA and the HOT-DANCERS have.
Cheers...
- Vino
Latin people are cheap, always have, always
will be. If they can get away with not paying for anything we will try
that by lying, cheating our stealing, that is our motto. That's why we
hid water in our coats, bring candy to the movie theater, etc. You will
have to live with it, that'w how our culture is.
- latino
clubs should charge a higher cover, unfortunately,
most of latin people are cheap!! so bad!!
- ISA
I want to say something here in defense of the
Latinos. As the person who sits at the door taking money every Saturday,
I don't think Latinos are cheap. Sure, there's always a few who don't
want to pay cover, but the majority of the Latinos don't have any problem.
Actually, the Latino men are the most generous. They often come in a group
and one person pays for everybody. I don't know how much drinks they buy
'cause I don't work at the bar. This is just my observation.
- Yang
I don’t think that the solution is
to charge a higher cover. That may result in less people coming and we
definitely don’t want that. Also, that would not be too fair to those
who do drink. How about offering an appealing selection of non alcoholic
mixed drinks or smoothies that are fruity and tropical (keeping with the
Salsa theme) and also worth a heftier price. Smoothies in other establishments
easily go for $3.50 - $6.00. Then the price would be about the same as
an alcoholic drink. Some clever promotion or display of the non alcoholic
drinks may be all that is needed.
- Umbrella Drinks
When you go to a Salsa Club in a big expansive
city like Paris, they charge you more (around $10) but you get a coupon
for a free soft drink. That incitates people to go to the bar. I agree
with you Yang, Latino men are not cheap. A lot of them don't make a lot
of money and still find the $$$ to go out. I went to a Mexican music concert
last summer in Chicago, tickets were $45 a piece (a whole payday for some
of them). The concert was full, at least 2000 people, and great by the
way. When the Tropicana was alive in Indianapolis, lots of latinos were
paying the $20 for a 2 hour concert.
- Silvano
In representation of the Latino community,
everybody can say yes you are right or no you are wrong. But nobody can
come up with an idea or suggestion. Well I have one for all of you, why
don't you bring your friends or family, coworkers? There is no better
way to promote a place than the word of mouth. I've been around the salsa
scene for a while and I've seen places coming and going. It only takes
our effort and support to make a good place succesful. For example if
you come to the club alone and only drink water it won't make a difference.
But if you bring 2, 3 or 4 friends with you that makes a difference even
if the only thing that you drink is water. And LATINOS ARE NOT CHEAP,
I SPEND OVER $50 A NIGHT EVERY TIME I GO OUT.
- Latino's Defense
I think Clubs make plenty of money out of
the Latin Nights, for example The Jazz Kitchen wouldn't be there without
their Latin Night on Thursday, or check with any other Latin Clubs such
as Tropicana, Eight Seconds, liquid, Club Kaos...etc. These clubs have
been around for a long time.....don't you think? ( by the way Tropicana
is still alive. They recently hosted a concert from the bachata sensation
group AVENTURA). Anyway, can anybody explain why the Blue Cactus didn't
host a Hip-Hop night on Saturdays instead of a Latin Night? In my opinion
it's not about Latin people or salsa dancers, it is about greediness;
the clubs want to make a fortune out of one night. I am Latino and a dancer
myself, and every time I go out to dance I spend an average of $30 without
counting $4 or $5 in tips. Do the math. Host a party of 200 people @$30
per person; now add the admission fee on top of it...good looking numbers,
aren't they? Now for those saying that we "Latinos" are cheap;
first of all you guys are not Latinos, and second your ugly comments only
reflect jealousness and racism.
- El Mayimbe de la Salsa
Well, I don't know if I'm the only one who
notices this, but tipping is not going to help the owners keep the place
open so we seem to be talking about apples and oranges here. If the owners
need money to keep salsa venues going, then how is tipping the waiter
going to help? I think it's great that places like the Vault, Red Room,
etc have salsa night, but I don't understand why it's up to us (dancers)
to worry about their business. That's their problem. When I go to a restuarant
I'm not thinking, "Oh I have to order the most expensive thing so
that the business will stay in the black." In any case, I always
tip $1 on the water that I buy, but like some others, I don't drink alcohol
(and I'm not a virgin, but I'm not cheap either, in case any one is interested.)
- Naomi
Ok. So first Latinos are players and now they are
cheap. What next? In my opinion Latinos are the best friends anyone can
have. They are loyal. They have a great sense of humor. They have big
hearts. If we're going to be listening to music that Latinos make and
dancing to moves that Latinos create, at least we can have respect for
their culture and their people!
- Una amiga
When I go, I always tip, but it's $3 for a bottle
water and the $1 tip equals to $4 for one bottle of water. Some couple
can't be paying $7 - 8 for 2 bottles of water everytime the whole night.
- love to dance
Great article. I'm from South Bend and now I come
to Indy sometimes for my salsa fix. We just had a club shut salsa night
down for this same reason. Nothing was done or suggested to solve the
problem. Most of the people hear are great tippers and spend big bucks
when in the club. This is after all Notre Dame Country and they are great
supporters of the latin dance movement. We (the salsa faithful) believe
the club owner didn't want to be bothered with the culture. Shame on him!!
It was not taken into account that latin dancers of all races are a better
crowd and don't cause the usual problems hip hop clubs have. We in S.B.
will continue to "keep hope alive" that someone will pick up
the slack.
- mattress353
Great Point by Naomi, How is tipping the
bartender going to help the owners business? The owner makes his margin,
if you buy water or Booze. But again depends on how much of Volume sale
he is going to make. And then comes the Q, why do you think that they
choose a Latin theme? Do you think he/they would have been able to make
the margin with an European theme or an all American theme? The Club owners
are not doing anyone a favour or are they there for charity and no matter
what, they are making money from Hosting the Latin nights or they WOULD
NOT be in the business of hosting a Latin night party. Take the case of
Blue Cactus, how much of business do you think that they made on an average
night? How many people go there on a non-latin night? Are the bar-tenders
busy on a Latin night or are they busy on the non-latin night? I am sure
it was the latin parties there that got them the Mola! I for one have
not seen bar-tenders at the Blue cactus idling for lack of customers ordering
stuff. If at all anything it was that they took too much of time completing
the orders which to me means -> continuous good business. And who is
providing the business, the theme of Latin culture and the majority of
the crowd been Latin. To me Latin is all about having fun, enjoying life
for the moment and thinking of savings latter. That attitude of fun and
spending on fun is why many clubs all around the world put up the Latin
nights and Latin cultural related themes. That is also why we have 8 or
9 years of continuous Latin Thursdays at the Jazz kitchen, do you think
that the owners would continue the theme if they were not making money?
The club owners are only trying to make money where there is a market
for that (read demand) and surely if they want people to buy more drinks,
may be they should try reducing the rates, simple rules of economics.
SUPPLY and DEMAND. No demand then they don’t have a market to supply.
And to chose of all the other possible envision able themes of culture
“LATIN”, there must be something there other than promoting
the great culture of SALSA. Cheers and hope all of u have a great time
at the Chicago congresso!
- Vino
Let me say drink prices at the Vault are
pretty cheap compare to some larger cities I have visited. Heck I only
had to pay $2.00 for a beer. I have been in places where it cost $20.00
to just get in the door and that didn't include a free drink. So be sure
to tip if you are drinking and support the establishment for supporting
us.
- anonymous
"Latin people are cheap, always have,
always will be. If they can get away with not paying for anything we will
try that by lying, cheating our stealing, that is our motto. That's why
we hid water in our coats, bring candy to the movie theater, etc. You
will have to live with it, that'w how our culture is. - latino" Yeah,
and that's why bad credit, warrants, and yeast infections run so freely
in your family… Dude, you’re assuming too much; and either sub-race
you come from that lives by those moral values is nothing any Latino would
ever be proud of being part of.
- Gerardo
great article on a real problem... being
new to the salsa community i hope for the day when the clubs are packed
and this isn't a problem. i suppose i have always believed that what comes
around goes around..especially in a tight nit community. If we can take
care of the establishments they will take care of us. If this means saying
hi to the bartender, buying a drink (water, wine, martini whatever,) and
leaving a nice tip with a little class so be it. It well worth an evening
of dance and partying...
- Chase
INtoSalsa, Indy's premier Salsa guide
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